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Transcript of
July 24, 2002 Security Chat Session With ATA Security Expert Jeffrey
Beatty
(Note:
Although some extraneous material has been removed, the following
is an unedited transcript of the session as it appeared to participants
at the time.)
[theeditor] Hello
and welcome to Transport Topics' first online chat session over
our website, TTNews.com. I'm Howard Abramson, publisher and editorial
director of Transport Topics, and the host of this session, which
is sponsored by Qualcomm Wireless Business Solutions. Our guest
today is Jeffrey K. Beatty, an expert on security issues and terrorism.
[beatty] Glad to
be here. I have with me today one of my senior associates Captain
Ray Brown, U.S. Coast Guard retired. Ray has a wealth of knowledge
on terrorism and transportation security issues.
[theeditor] I'd
like to ask the first question.
[theeditor] Obviously,
many us believe that 9/11 changed all of our lives, and altered
the way we do things in this nation. We are already being asked
to submit to many more security checks at airports; it's harder
to mail packages; freight companies are being asked to scrutinize
their customers; and employers in the transportation industry
are being asked to join in the anti-terrorism efforts.
[beatty] Howard,
I think we are forever changed, or at least changed for a new
generation. All over the country and in all sorts of industry
segments, I see significant change that has come about of the
result of people respecting the new reality o f terrorism. We
must not forget that it takes terrorists months and years to plan
operations and it would be wrong then to let our guard down after
a few months of vigilance - just at a time when they would most
likely prepared to attack.
[Dale Sheehan] Will
security issues have an effect on how ORM's are going to be handled?
[jcarroll] What
is your opinion of President Bush's new Homeland Security plan?
[beatty] This is
a very useful well thought out plan. And while we talk about it
I would like to invite all of our participants to look at Slide
No. 3 of our Chat Session slides. For business purposes, it is
not possible to stay at Level Red - full time. Red, represents
a surge capability only when there is an eminent specific incredible
threat. Orange, identifies the maximum sustainable security effort.
Yellow, represents increased security measures. Now business can
take threat informa tion from the Government and translate it
into specific measures that they can employ at each level.
[Tony D] Jeff -With
your experience-What over the road cargo-Nuclear Waste-Fuel (Gas
or Aviation)-Chemicals etc poses the greatest threat to the American
Public
[Scott Schilling]
We conduct background checks on our drivers. In terms of hazardous
material endorsements, do they indeed intend to run background
checks on individuals seeking this endorsement? If so, when will
the standards be published so we ca n ensure compliance prior
to hiring an individual? Lastly, will individuals already hired
be grandfathered in?
[beatty] For all
participants, Mr. Sheehan, what does ORM stand for?
[jcarroll] What
is the nation's greatest vulnerability to future attacks?
[beatty] It would
be inappropriate to point out some of our greatest specific vulnerabilities
in an internet forum like this, because of the concern that some
of this information may become known by someone who could pose
a risk or use this for the wrong interest. However, in general,
we know that the transportation sector is of great interest to
terrorists. They have targeted buses, subways, airliners, as well
as regular automobiles and vehicle bombs. If we only worry about
our greatest vulnerabilities, and put measures in place to reduce
only those specific vulnerabilities, than we are inviting ourselves
to be hit at our second and third greatest vulnerabilities. This
is actually a great question, because it allows us to discuss
the need for a broad based holistic approach to defeating terrorism.
In laymen's terms, America needs us to be able to walk and chew
gum at the same time. We can't just do one thing well, we need
to many things well. And this can be done - without breaking the
bank.
[tom] Do your believe
there is any ARMED group in the US that has the intent and means
to hijack a Explosives shipment?
[Tony D] Jeff -With
your experience-What over the road cargo-Nuclear Waste-Fuel (Gas
or Aviation)-Chemicals etc poses the greatest threat to the American
Public
[beatty] The greatest
risk of a terrorist attack on the ground is a package bomb or
firearms attack, because those are the easiest operations to mount.
And with a package bomb the perpetrator can be long gone before
the bomb goes off. Historically, there are more than 100 package
bomb attacks (i.e., a few pound to forty pounds of explosives)
for every vehicle bomb attack.
[tcam] Right now
our Commercial Drivers are providing numerous types of identification
at our customers, the police, security etc. Is the government
going to regulate or establish a common identification card for
all commercial drivers?
[ACR] the bank is
smaller now than it was 4 months ago
[Robert] And if
these terrorists are willing to die in pursuit of their cause,
isn't the range of potential targets and means of inflicting destruction
so broad that we can't possibly hope to stop every threat? How
can we afford as a nation afford to cover all the bases without
'breaking the bank.'
[jcarroll] Do trucks
strike you as the greatest risk of a devastating terrorist attack
on the ground? What are some attack scenarios using a truck? What's
being done to prevent those scenarios?
[Tony D] I would
think that fuel trucks-obviously marked-with supplier logos -
would be high on our list for some protective devices or technology
[beatty] A truck
or other vehicle bomb is certainly something we need to defend
against. But let's keep it in perspective, trucks are only going
to be sought after as weapons by terrorists that want or need
to deliver thousands of pounds of explosives to one target. Car
bombs are more prevalent and are used by terrorists to deliver
hundreds of pounds of explosives to a target area. And while we
are speaking about cars, let's remember the recent interest in
suitcase nuclear bombs. It would be much more likely and easier
for a terrorist to use a car to deliver a suitcase nuclear bomb
than to use a truck.
[beatty] Today,
let's limit our discussion to what can be done in the trucking
industry. We have three major categories, they are (1) Technology,
(2) Training, (3) Policies and Procedures. We must draw from a
synergistic approach of all of these to help defeat the possibility
and to deter terrorist attacks. For example, on 9/11 under the
category of Technology, if we had the requirement of hardened
aircraft cockpit doors that would have helped. But that alone
would not have been enough to stop the attacks. We needed help
in the Training category as well. For example, if pilots had been
trained not to open the cockpit door and land immediately when
under threat, law enforcement official on the ground could have
respond and potentially resolved the crisis within the cabin.
That too would have helped. But without the hardened cockpit door,
the training alone would not have been enough. Under the category
of Policies and Procedures, if the Policy had been in place for
airport screeners to not allow box cutters onto an aircraft and
if there had been Procedures to handle such incidents, that too
would have helped. None of these things alone may have prevented
these attacks from happening, but two more of them together would
have likely prevented the attacks.
[beatty] Bringing
this same idea to the trucking industry, we need to look at ways
to use Technology, Training, and Policies and Procedures to reduce
the possibility of a terrorist attack in our sector. For example:
tracking technologies, locks, seals; coupled with improved driver
training, modified and updated policies and procedures, all can
reduce the possibility of someone taking a truck or a truck's
cargo and using it as a weapon of destruction.
[jcarroll] For the
participants, please view, in conjunction with the previous to
see how policy, technology and training all play a role in the
big picture.
[jcarroll] Slide
Five /chat/identifyopacts.html
[ACR] Does slide
5 tell us that technology gives the most payback?
[john] In line with
your comments about a triad of solutions (Technology, Training
and Policies) Given that many US industries have taken advantage
of the NAFTA agreements and designed distributed operations across
the borders wtih Canada and Mexico,they could have significant
costs in the form of dissruptions due to inspections delays, confiscated
or held inventory/product due to questionable documentation etc.
Do you envision government mandated processes that if complied
with, will speed the flow of goods across "friendly" borders or
will this be more likely left to the industry to provide reasonable,
flexible solutions? In either case, what will Trucking companies
need to be prepared to provide in the way of coordinated, readily
accessible information and documentation?
[Tony D] I was more
focused on fuel deliveries in residential neighborhoods where
a small projectile-from a distance-could be devastating
[Robert] And if
these terrorists are willing to die in pursuit of their cause,
isn't the range of potential targets and means of inflicting destruction
so broad that we can't possibly hope to stop every threat? How
can we afford as a nation afford to cover all the bases without
'breaking the bank.'
[beatty] Stopping
a suicide bomber is not easy. But it is possible. And the overwhelming
number of attacks are not suicidal. A terrorist just doesn't show
up on the day of the attack.
[beatty] The attack
is proceeded by a number of operational acts over period of months
if not years.
[beatty] These operational
acts include: casing, rehearsals, and these acts are detectible
- if you know what to look for.
[beatty] Part of
our training program is to teach people what to look for. And
when we do that we can succeed more often then fail.
[beatty] We lost
on 9/11 to a low-tech high-concept attack
[MGOC] Pertaining
to "Training," how can America's truck divers possibly be trained
to identify and prevent a terrorist attack? Is this realistic?
[weh] Specifically
to trucking, will we see from the federal government a definitive
list of hazardous materials that are of terrorist concern so that
other commodities & carriers can get about their business?
[beatty] When we
become equally high-concept and understand how they mount their
operations we can use technology. policies and pocedures and training
to defeat them.Please take a look at Slide
No. 6 .
[jcarroll] Please
view slide six at /chat/opactstransit.html
[beatty] Slide
No. 6 shows what some of these operational looks likes
in the "intransit" portion of a trucking operation.
[beatty] There are
more operational acts for different phases of trucking operations
and these are the types of things that go into the training portion
of the Highway Watch - America's Trucking Army.
[Robert] Good ideas
but the technologies cost money. Most of the 450,000 carriers
out there are small businesses, mom & pop types that run on pretty
thin margins already. Is the government prepared to help smaller
carriers pay for stepped up security? With soaring insurance costs,
such measures could drive a lot of smaller truckers out of business.
[beatty] Good question.
Let me pass the first part of this hot potato over to Marc Sands
and I'll follow-up with the remainder. Marc ?
[beatty (Marc Sands)]
Communications equipment and services costs have been coming down
over the last five years. Making them more affordable for small
and mid-sized fleets. For a wider adoption, it may be necessary
for Government to provide incentives for carriers to invest in
technology that provides both productivity and security benefits.
[Dale Sheehan] Slide
six has some great awareness ideas but are these ideas
being driven home within the trucking sector?
[ACR] What kind
of incentives?
[beatty] Jeff
here, thanks Marc. The key is to recognize that cost is cost.
And as part of our anti-terrorism action plan "ATAP" we are seeking
Government's asistance to provide incentives for industry members
to adopt technologies that are effective against terrorism.
[jcarroll] Do
you believe America's Trucking Army is a realistic tool for preventing
terrorism? Is it worth the $$ to train truck drivers to spot terrorists,
and how many truck drivers can realistically be trained? Do you
believe America's Trucking Army is a realistic tool for preventing
terrorism? Is it worth the $$ to train truck drivers to spot terrorists,
and how many truck drivers can realistically be trained?
[beatty] Yes
it is. Nobody knows more about what looks wrong or unusual in
the industry than a truck driver. We can train more than 3 million
truck drivers in a very short period of time, one to two years,
once the program is fully funded. By the way, there are two main
missions for America's Trucking Army, (1) make sure no truck is
used as a weapon, (2) to observe and protect our National infrastructure,
bridges, tunnels, etc. There is no more cost effective way to
accomplish these two objectives than to have as the base of your
program - America's Trucking Army.
[beatty] In addition,
I want to draw your attention to Slide No.
4. This is the reporting format that members of America's
Trucking Army are going to be asked t use.
[jcarroll] Refer
to slide 4 at /chat/trucksreport.html
[jcarroll] Note
to users, if you remain idle for 20 minutes or more the chat session
will automatically disconnect you...
[beatty] This report
will go to our expanded Highway Watch Operation Center, where
it will be disseminated to appropriate local state and federal
agencies in real time.
[Jay] What,
if any, technologies do you forsee the federal government requiring
trucking operations to adopt? Much like the background check requirement
for drivers hauling hazmats, do you believe that such measures
as satellite tracking of hazardous loads will be mandated in the
near future?
[beatty] Company
Proprietary information is protected in the Highway Watch Operations
Center while critical safety or security information
[beatty] ...
is passed to the appropriate local, state and federal agencies.
[Scott Schilling]
Any news on Hazardous Material Endorsements on a license and any
background checks that will be performed by the DMV prior to issuance?
[MarkH] Other countries
(Israel, UK) have had to deal with terrorists for some time. What
technologies and procedures have they found effective for their
truckers to use?
[Richard] Cargo
theft seems to be on the rise, particularly with "high value"
loads. There is some thought in the trucking industry that these
thefts are being used to fund terrorist activities. Is the government
giving any attention to this possibility and can we expect more
assistance is fighting off cargo theft if this is the case?
[beatty] It
is very possible that theft funds terrorism. There have been recent
arrests involving cigarette hijacking and smuggling that the Government
claims have funded terrorist cells.
[beatty] We recognize
that this is a real problem and as a result we have developed
check lists and procedures to help guard against it. Please take
a look at sample check list provided on Slide
No. 7
[MGOC] What
about shipping nuclear waste and nuclear fuel by truck? Isn't
this just an open invitation to terrorists?
[beatty] Highway
Watch training emphasizes and reinforces company policies that
are similar to Slide No. 7.
[beatty] Now
to Marc for a comment on technology related to cargo theft and
high-value loads.
[beatty (Marc)]
Some of the same technology that can provide homeland security
benefits to prevent terrorism can also be applied to the cargo
theft problem. In this way, there is a potential value proposition
for the carriers, shippers and for the Government to provide incentives
for investment in technology. This is another opportunity for
a productivity/economic benefit that can be leveraged through
investments in security.
[weh] What
will be the disqualifying records from an FBI or INS point of
view on background checks?
[beatty] Good
question. The Government has not yet told us what those disqualifying
items will finally be. We expect that they will be similar, but
perhaps slightly less stringent than the ones applied to the aviation
industry.
[beatty] Keep
an eye on Transport Topics for when this information becomes public.
[Tony D] Are
there technologies used in the military that would be applicable
in the trucking industry to prevent cargo explosion or incineration?
[jcarroll] At
the end of the day, despite all of the expense for new security
measures, there really is no guarantee that terrorists won't be
able to use a truck as a weapon of mass destruction, is there.
Look at the Oklahoma City bombing … a leased truck and farm chemicals
…. Is there really any way to stop terrorists?
[beatty] Yes.
In this case, if the security personnel at the Federal Building
in OKC had recognized the elements of the truck bomb "attack profile"
McVeigh would have been challenged as he left the vehicle behind
and departed the area. That would h ave bought ten minutes of
time to evacuate the building and perhaps even capture McVeigh
and turn the bomb "off". This was a training issue.
[beatty] The
rental community have made changes to their policies and procedures
in the wake of the McVeigh attack. And, note that our national
consciousness has been raised to the point where the recent attempt
to purchase ambulances and emergency equipment was thwarted.
[beatty] So
we are making progress and seeing examples where the operational
acts at the beginning of the terrorist-attack cycle can be detected
and disrupted.
[Jerry] Hence
Mr. Carrolls commet the Trucking Industry will have a much higher
expense of hiring qualified drivers and the time it takes to get
a driver into a truck through background checks, MVR checks,security
checks, etc, the time to get a driver in a truck can and has taken
up to a month. What are your thoughts on this?
[beatty] That's
too d*** long.
[beatty] We
are not satisfied with that timeframe and are working to shorten
timeframes. We are having modest success at this point.
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[beatty] This
is a priority of ours and we will stay on it.
[beatty] Thanks
for the question and hang in there.
[Tony D] That's
why I raised the issue of fuel trucks earlier as I see them as
a somewhat easy target and very vulnerable to small arms fire
from a distance
[Tony D] Are
there technologies used in the military that would be applicable
in the trucking industry to prevent cargo explosion or incineration?
[Eric Lien] What
long term changes will be seen at border crossings & what will
the impact be long term to trucking? At the southern & northern
border?
[beatty] First
of all, the Canadian Trucking Association is part of our ATAP.
[beatty] We
are looking for ways to speed the crossings of trucks at both
borders.
[beatty] Government
is working this problem as well. And we expect to see a joint
Government industry approach that involves pre-cleared loads,
established and known operators and companies, known shipper programs,
etc., where vehicles that pose les s likelihood of threat are
expedited accross borders.
[Dan Lang] We
are talking about trucks as weapons, the way the airliners were
used. But might there not be even greater value to terrorists
in acquiring trucks -- which are ubiquitous in our landscape --
for use in moving people and materials around the country. How
might we spot that kind of activity?
[Richard] Any idea
on when, if ever, the trucking industry will have access to the
NCCI database?
[Jerry] The
trucking industry currently under most for hire carriers has a
thourough process for screening CDL drivers. Back ground checks,MVR
reveiw, Work Comp Review,Criminal Investigation check,etc do you
feel this process is recreating itself or recreating the wheel?
Do you forsee a single identification method/system
for drivers that could be accepted everywhere?
[beatty] Now
to Marc.
[beatty] Marc...
use of communications technology RFID tags and transponders can
help play a role in providing pre-clearance of vehicles at the
border.
[Tony D] That's
why I raised the issue of fuel trucks earlier as I see them as
a somewhat easy target and very vulnerable to small arms fire
from a distance
[jcarroll] What
role do you see technology playing in helping the industry improve
security?
[beatty] I'll
let Marc answer this one. For starters, truckers can leverage
their cell phones for use in security. E-911 services are being
rolled out in the U.S. E-911 will allow the 911 dispatcher to
identify the position location of the emergency caller. In addition,
trucking fleets can leverage their satellite communications and
tracking systems to provide additional security with out-of-route
alerts, emergency, panic button notification, driver authentication,
and potentially remote shut-down of stolen or hijacked vehicles.
[James Anderson]
Is there a central point where I can find government regulations
regarding requirements for Transportation Security, i.e., HAZMAT,
fuel, et al? - Jim Anderson
[jcarroll] Do
we have to become a police state in order to protect ourselves
from terrorists?
[beatty] Here
is a question for Ray Brown. Ray …Certainly not, what we have
to do is make security awareness a way of life - rather like personal
hygiene, looking both ways before crossing the street, and eating
three squares a day. Just a France, Italy and Great Britain have
for years lived with the threat of terrorism, without losing their
democratic ideals, we Americans need to become more watchful.
Terrorists are not ten feet tall, they have expend a lot of time
and effort before mounting an operation, and if we have our wits
about us we will be able to delay and disrupt them.
[Scott Schilling]
Whether or not a plan is implemented and training performed, is
there any talk in DC regarding company liability in the unfortunate
event something happens indirectly involving that company?
[richie] mr.beatty
i can beleave so many states are not jumping on the band wagon
of the truck watch program ,is the fed's pushing this issue or
letting the states go on there own time table? i live in new york
and was there on 911 helping
[beatty] What
do the Israelis do to make sure trucks aren't used as bombs? Can
the US learn anything from them???
[Bill] Has
any consideration been give to the fresh produce that could easily
be tainted enroute via the vent doors? I am major produce hauler
and would appreciate any ideas or thoughts. Thanks
[weh] What
can port truckers do to prevent terminal gate security clearance
from further hindering their ability to earn a living?
[Tony D] Ms.
Carroll's notion of POLICE STATE is not far fetched and where
in your opinion Jeff is the best place to start. Does the trucking
industry need to bear the full cost burden or can the government
provide some finanancial support
[Tony D] Jeff-what
is Mr. Brown's feeling about roll on-roll off freight containers
arriving by ship and delivered by truck-is there a threat issue
here
[beatty] Ray...
Big Problem. There are lots of drugs and illegal aliens coming
into the country this way. The sea is a big highway and what comes
in by see flows on our interstate highway system. No real solution
to the container tracking problem is in the immediate future
[Eric Lien] I
hear and read a lot about new technologies, trained behaviors,
new processes that will help truckers prevent future terrorist
attacks. How will these be funded? Who burdens the cost of future
technology? Who compensates for lost productivity during security
training? The time delayed background checks? etc. Where the airlines
levy a security surcharge to its passengers, the trucking industry
can not levy an additional surcharge to its users (shippers).
Thoughts?
[beatty] But
let's remember that Timothy McVeigh in OKC and Ramsey Yousef in
the 1993 World Trade Center (WTC) bombing did not need imported
containers. The threat is already here, inside our borders.
[beatty] Accounting
for containers would be tough for the containers too, as there
is a long chain of custody. There are easier ways.
[beatty] Now to
Marc...
[beatty (Marc)]
Similar to addressing pre-clearance of loads at the border for
trucks, smart-tags or RFID tags as electronic seals on containers
as well as satellite communications and tracking systems for intransit
visibility can help address this security issue with containers.
And also improve overall supply-chain management.
[Tony D] I assume
that these bulk containers we see on the road also carry fuels
or explosive mixtures from overseas also and therefore pose a
problem
[beatty] Now
to Jeff...
[beatty] Please
view slide six at http/chat/opactstransit.html
[beatty] Remember
earlier we talked about "operational acts" using containers to
transport locally available explosives or other available material
increases the number of operational acts that a terrorist would
need to perform to press home his attack.
[beatty] Terrorists
really seek to minimize the number of operational acts in each
attack, because each operational act is a potential of detection
by law enforcement, transportation officials, and all members
of the cargo trucking industry. In short, the more operational
attacks involved in the attack the more likely the attack will
fail.
[jcarroll] What
plans are being formulated to deal with the aftermath of a terrorists
attack using a tractor/trailer? Based on the current mood of the
American public if there is an attack using tractor/trailers,
or even a perceived attack, the public will demand and possibly
enforce themselves that all trucks be stopped, searched and prevented
from reaching their destination. This will be catastrophic for
the US economy. Without previous plans and alternatives it could
take weeks for the truking industry to get back to normal. Is
anyone trying to develop contingency plans just in case?
[beatty] Al Qaeda
has shown that they can launch multiple truck bomb attacks. Just
take a look at Slide No. 2 at /chat/truckscenario.html
where there were 5,000 casualties in a 30 minute period in two
separate East African countries, 700 miles apart.
[beatty] To continue...
Take a look now at slide No. 3
[Tony D] Ms.
Carroll raises a strong point as one could view a terrorists success
mode as being able to limit-reduce or alter over the road cargo
shipments and mode of operation
[beatty] The
Homeland Security advisory system on the left takes us up through
the highest level of prevention which is Red.
[beatty] The
chart on the right shows two additional phases: Black and Purple.
[beatty] Black,
are the measure that we all must have in place to deal with an
ongoing terrorist incident.
[beatty] These
are the measure that New York city took on the morning of 9/11.
We are working with State Trucking Associations, State Emergency
Management Agencies and the DOT to develop plans to live with
the consequences to live with a consequences of a successful attack.
[beatty] We
cannot stop trucks after such an attack, like they stopped airplanes
on 9/11.
[beatty] Imagine
city dwellers looking at trucks backed up on the highway not delivering
food or fuel.
[beatty] Food
riots are a real possibility. Rest assured, we recognize the need
for planning here and have embarked on this course. But we are
only at the beginning of the process.
[Tony D] Can
we be proactive in this instance and seek technology that protects
the most vulnerable cargo platforms traveling over the road like
fuel-oil etc
[beatty] The
Purple phase, deals with the recovery after a terrorist attack.
This equates to your business recovery plan. This too must be
done in conjunction with State, local and Federal emergency managers
and State and National trucking associations
[beatty] The
idea is to stabalize and restore.
[beatty] I want
you to take a look at slide No. 1. http/chat/early_warning.html
[beatty] The
plume of smoke on this slide might just as easily been generated
by a vehicle bomb. In fact, a samller plume existed on this exact
site in 1993.
[beatty] Read
the Quote.
[beatty] Heed
the Quote
[beatty] They
have told us their intent. They have demonstrated their capability.
They are serious and we must be equally as serious to defeat them.
[Tony D] Is
a multiple attack scenario more likely in the trucking industry
or are we to expect random attacks on fuel and the like
[James Anderson]
I would expect DOT to be given a greater role in random truck
and other cargo inspections, probably under the purview of Homeland
Security. This would, of course, necessitate a larger workforce
for DOT. What is your opinion on this?
[BA] Airline security
is more advanced than trucking security. Yet the majority of their
security checks and balances have come in response to an unforeseen
situation or act. What crystal ball do we have to predict and
prevent a terrorist attack using trucks?
[jcarroll] Now,
some closing thoughts from Transport Topics Editorial Howard Abramson…
[jcarroll (Howard)]
Thanks to Jeff Beatty and his people at Total Security Services
International. Thanks to all of you for what proved to be a lively
and provocative interchange. And a special thanks to Mark Sands
and Qualcomm Wireless Business Solutions for sponsoring our first
online chat session
[Tony D] Jeff-Thank
you for your time and cooperation
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